If you found this file in an archive then put keyword "nutteing2" in a
search engine to find a live / recent version. This and associated files have been on the internet more than 3 years now, known to all concerned in Wiltshire and strange as it may seem nothing libellous in any of the files.
The 1996 Defamation Act amended the Limitation Act of 1980 to give a time limit
of one year for any libel action. I informed all the corrupt bastards in Wiltshire in 2000 and
since then have received no rebuttal letters from individuals or solicitors and no writs.
But of course the main reason there is no libel is the files are just straight
reporting of events without any invention on my part. All the files have been
recorded (on www.archive.org ) totally independently with the first file archived
on 19 September 2000 and more than 40 versions of the files over the months and
years since.
Despite official government sites linking to these files there are
still corrupt persons knocking out my sites, so for the
purposes of searchengines cross-linking them, files no longer
available on the original web hosting sites were on
http://www.nutteing.50megs.com/nutteing2.htm , http://www.nutteing.freeisp.co.uk/nutteing2.htm,
http://nutteing.no-frills.net/nutteing2.htm and http://nutteing3.no-frills.net/nutteing2.htm and http://www.nutteing.dabsol.co.uk/nutteing2.htm (last 3 due now to host failure)
http://www.nutteing.batcave.net/nutteing2.htm , http://home.graffiti.net/nutteing/nutteing2.htm File updated Dec, 2007
Crown v Paul NUTTEING
to be heard at Salisbury Magistrates
Court 26th February, 2001, 10. 00 am
Charge Sheet Between 16th June
1997 and 9th September 2000 at Salisbury in the County of Wiltshire pursued a
course of conduct which amounted to harassment of STELLA CONSTANT and which you
knew or ought to have known amounted to the harassment of her in that BETWEEN
1996 AND 2000 YOU CONTINUOUSLY SENT UNWANTED LETTERS TO STELLA CONSTANT, FAMILY
MEMBERS AND PLACES OF EMPLOYMENT ALSO PLACING AN ARTICLE ON THE INTERNET ALL OF
WHICH CAUSED STELLA CONSTANT HARASSMENT AND DISTRESS CONTRARY TO SECTION 2(1)
AND (2) OF THE PROTECTION FROM HARASSMENT ACT 1997
Bail Conditions: Not
to contact directly or indirectly Stella CONSTANT, Kelvin DAWSON, Andrew
DAWSON, Honoria CONSTANT, Pauline DAWSON and John STODDART.
Neither Jane Warren nor Roger Norman Thomas Jones , Head of Wiltshire CPS, of 119
Semington Rd, Melksham dared to take this case to court. They would not
forward pre-trial disclosures to my solicitor of the forged letter JBS1
submitted as police evidence by John Barton STODDART or the criminal record of
Stella Maria CONSTANT. The implied earlier criminal record of Stella CONSTANT
is something else that Wilts Social Services should investigate. The reasons
for the discontinuance will become even more apparent reading the following file
. They had over five months to do so; three more weeks and it would have
been automatic abuse of process for this sort of trial. This scheduled trial
had to be specially empanelled. Because the two complicitous social workers
operated regularly in Salisbury courts, magistrates from well out of area had to
be found to avoid a prejudicial environment.
The solicitor, or whoever, in the precincts of Salisbury Magistrates gave me this
great sheaf of 120 pages or so from Wiltshire CPS marked "DEFENCE" and told me
do with it what I thought best. The other defendants hanging around seemed to
just have 2 or 3 sheets marked "DEFENCE". So here it is on the internet as I
think that is best. Police Interview and Witness Statements.
Note -names are real
except the names of innocent persons whose identities have been marked _ or
withheld. * marks edited words until after the trial. Homonyms have been
corrected e. g ( treat is ) amended to ( treatise ). Text in square brackets [
] is editorial comment. I have in my possession copies of the two audio tapes
of this police interview .
Form MG 15(T) Wiltshire Constabulary Record of Interview Person
Interviewed Paul Nutteing [recorded as R] Date of interview 9. 9. 00
Time commenced 2011 Interviewing officers WPC 1084 Nicki Griffin / DC 385
Sean Memory No other persons present.
Introductions made NUTTEING
advised of right to free and independent legal advice and cautioned 1084__
The reason that I arrested you this evening in relation of on suspicion of
harassment w as following a complaint that I received from a Miss Stella
Constant who came into the Police Station back in April of this year and she
made a complaint to me that over a period of approximately four years since 1996
up until ... R_____ As long as that two years okay 1084__ The present
day that you have bombarded her and her family R_____Not bombarded, I take
exception to that, it was about half a dozen letters over three years I'd have
said, well she says four years , maybe four years. It's not what I call bombarded
. 1184__ Can I explain the reason that you were interviewed. R_____ Yes
1184__ That you bombarded her family, her friends, neighbours and employers
with literally hundreds of unwanted and unanswered letters R_____No not
hundreds, unsolicited letters I agree with but unless someone has totalized the
figure I wouldn't say it was hundreds. 1184__ Okay. At that time when she
came in, back in April, she made a complaint and made a written statement in
relation to the harassment that she felt that you were causing her by sending
those letters and she requested that you be advised to cease this course of
conduct which is causing harassment. I arranged with Hampshire Police for
somebody to come round and visit you in May of this year, May 2000 and a WPC
VIVIAN replied to my letter saying that she'd call round to see you and advised
you to cease in your course of conduct which is called the harassment.
R_____ Well as far as you go yes 1184__ Okay R_____But she actually
stated to cease sending letters to her , that is a whoever the complainant was
which she didn't identify. I later phoned, I later contacted you by writing to
find out who the complainant was. 1184__ Okay R_____She didn't tell me
at the time 1184__ This all took place in May, Miss CONSTANT returned to the
Police Station back in I think August of this year and said that she was
continuing to be harassed by your conduct R_____I haven't harassed her at
all. Her family has been harassing her if anyone I haven't. It's pointless
sending letters to her. 1184__ She feels harassed by the course of conduct
which you are continuing with and wish to make a formal complaint of harassment
against you. R_____ The people I've sent letters to are entitled to call up
the police, even send the letters back to me or whatever. I've not harassed
her, I've not sent a letter for well over a year, it was March 1999 was the last
letter I sent. 1184__ Okay R______That was the last 1184__ What I'd
like to go through with you , I've got some , some of the copies of some of the
original letters, not all of them, I haven't brought all of them down with me, but
basically to go through what Miss CONSTANT said in her statement. in her
complaint against you and I'll go through this with you and then ask your
opinions once I've gone through that with you. Do you understand R_____Yeah
385___ I think what we could do to start with is perhaps you could tell us a
bit of your history and how you know Stella and how it's led to you being here
today. R_____ I can enter up the whole lot written out here there's about
60K of words , didn't I send a copy to you. 385___ Yeah R_____Yes it's
because it's in the public domain not under my name. 1184__ What I'm, what
we want you to do is explain to us how you know Stella, how you became ...
R_____ She, She .. 1184__ How you became involved .... R_____ Okay
1184__ And what's led up ....... R_____ The basic problem is roughly
twenty years ago, 1976, she had a daughter, well I can show you if you like, was
registered, birth register with the father who is someone who is infertile and
therefore cannot be the father and someone who she later married and in fact
five years later married. She, she left me for whatever reason prior to the
birth and I'll find the [documentary material], it's here somewhere. I'll take
that lot out. 385___ You say this man's infertile, how do you know that
R_____Stella told me, she told me the sperm count and everything and in fact
he was tested twice that you might say that's hearsay, I mean that's, I've no
access to his medical records but that is , if you formally want me to admit as
evidence, cos it's not, it's a photocopy. 1184__ For the purpose of the tape
Mr NUTTEING is showing us the Birth Certificate of Naomi Leafe DAWSON.
R_____ The main point is the name of father as K D DAWSON 1184__ Who as
Stella has stated in her statement is not the biological father she's stated
that you are the biological father of ... R_____ She actually stated that
did she in the statement. 1184__ Yes 385___ Yes R_____Oh right okay
. 1184__ Yes that's not really in dispute she stated in her statement that
she separated from you before the birth. R_____ But that is perjury as such
. She knowingly put down a false statement to a crown official. 1184__
Where was the birth registered. R_____ Signed , signed by both parties.
When it was registered. 1184__ Where R____ Ah, Southampton, Bugle Street
as far as I know. 1184__ They would be offences that would have to be
investigated by. R_____ Well the CPS have started investigating it
already, back in April that's why I have had to be interviewed by Hampshire
Police on that, in fact I had a follow up interview as well about other stuff
relating to it. 1184__ Okay R____ Anyway I actually pleaded with her to
come back and live with me again after the daughter was born and the same thing
happened again, she left prior to the son being born, but at least this time he
was registered as illegitimate but given Kelvin's surname although they were
married three years later, whatever that is perjury I've no idea probably is but
it's false anyway, false information. That's how it started I never knew about
that, it was only cos my daughter found by whatever means I dunno, I didn't
contact her. I suspect who did contact her but I've no proof .. Ah, in about
August 1996 she phoned me up saying straight off, I believe you are my father
which I wouldn't deny, that's how it started but her informant that's my
daughter's informant never told her about her son, [error] her, her brother being
unrelated to this Kelvin Derrick DAWSON that's what it comes down to and then
sort of continuing to , conspiring to disguise all this perjury and lying to my
daughter so that she actually wrote to me cutting off all contact because
according to her I was lying and deluded. I hadn't actually lied at all about
anything except one thing to disguise her mother's behaviour but I got found out
on that but that's very much a summary of it but the basic idea. 1184__ And
as a result of this what was your actions R_____I expected of course I'm not
dealing with an honourable person, but I suspect that it's dragged on so long
that it ruined my daughter's education at university, it's going to ruin, well
let's call her son's education probably and because me daughter one of the
reasons long before she contacted me knew .. I didn't go into details, what the
blood groups were of her mother and Kelvin. I assume cos Kelvin might have a
military passport so put me right if I'm wrong but anyway she found out that his
blood group which she referred to as quite a rare blood group, she didn't
actually say group B, but a rare, quite a rare blood group and she expected to
have the same rare blood group and she doesn't, she has blood group A which is my
blood group so it would be very easily arranged with my GP, that it's quite a
standard procedure as long as everyone agrees, that GP will contact GP, exchange
letters confirming blood groups. If Fian was blood group B then he couldn't
possibly be related to me and that's the end of it. It wouldn't if he was A it
wouldn't mean that I was the father but at least it would show that this Stella
woman is lying through her teeth and that he couldn't possibly be the father.
But it could have been easily settled in 1997 but now it's dragged out till this
silly extent of smashing windows and god knows what but that is it. 1184__
Could you explain who you've sent letters to R_____I think that's more up to
you to tell me but certainly family, a couple of friends. 1184__ When I
mentioned that Miss CONSTANT had mentioned hundreds of letters what estimate
would you put at. R_____ No, cos I haven't religiously sent the same letters
to the same people each time but I would say on average five to however many
people that she says I've been sending letters to but it's certainly not twenty
people I've been sending letters to, twenty people to make a hundred letters you
know 385___ And why have you been sending letters to these people.
R_____ Well I'll plead my case with anyone who's prepared to listen and all
these people have, not a single one until two weeks ago , I got a round robin
which this is a photocopy of on two sides from the four named people that this
was the first indication in what she says four years, I'd say three years that
anyone has not appreciated my letters, there's no threats in them. 385___
You say that you've never had a reply from any have you R____ I've not had a
reply from anyone so far. I assume that was acceptable. I mean if you find
letters offensive you ... 1184__ Do you know these people R_____No, I
mean I met Mr DAWSON five or six years ago accidentally but other than that no.
No they're all unsolicited letters. 385___ How did you find their details
to send them to R____ This was standard procedure for genealogy sort of
thing, genealogy, but, the Catherine House Index you're not familiar with that.
[ For the assistance of anyone alighting on this file because of the person
tracing aspects here is someone's file birth parent tracing story
, otherwise skip] 1184__ No 385___ No R_____You're kidding have
you never heard of the St Catherine's House Index 1184__ No R_____Oh
right, do you want me to explain I mean ... 385___ Yeah R_____Since 1837
to the current day every birth, marriage and death is registered locally, in this
case [holding up Leafe's birth certificate] in Bugle Street, Southampton. All
the records are collated on a three monthly basis and sent to the National
General Record Office, GRO. They are over all collated together nationally in
that sense and I don't know since when but certainly for decades they've been
released to county by county in reference, usually records offices or reference
libraries on - I can't believe I'm telling you this - but anyway accessible by
anyone, you know a member of the public, private detectives, anyone like that.
It's not illegal and there's enough information there then to apply for a copy of
the certificate which is again perfectly legal to do, whether birth, marriage or
death certificate for someone related or unrelated, it's quite standard procedure
. 1184__ And from that index you can get peoples addresses can you.
R_____ No, I mean we're talking about old information I think this is 1976
[Leafe's registration in front of us]. I could have got their marriage
certificate if I wanted to, that would have been 1981 but after 1992 you have to
apply to the individual registry office, which you can access but it costs a bit
more, it costs about £30 to have access to the indexes directly as distinct from
the microfiches that go to the record offices. 1184__ Where do you get
people's addresses from R_____Addresses from, well the voter's list
1184__ Okay R____ Again open information it's not illegal. 385___
What were you hoping to achieve by writing to all these people. R_____ Well
I was getting nowhere with this woman, I mean I had sent her two or three
letters, gradually, well other than she'd be shouting and bawling down the phone
in the middle of the night, harassment if you like but is actually. Absolutely
getting nowhere but I decided, right, plead my case with as many people I could
contact and that was what I did which is what I did and it has had an effect.
1184__ So what did you think would happen when you sent letters to people.
R_____ Well say one of these people here is an Andrew DAWSON and he is the
younger brother of Kelvin DAWSON, well presumably they had the same parents or
did have the same parents [their father died in 1986] and the same blood group
so if I wrote a letter to him claiming that his brother had blood group B and
this Andrew was blood group A, I'd expect him to write back a bit
seriously, indignantly, and put me right or anything else. It was highly specific
letters I was sending. 1184__ What about the other people on this list
R_____Ah that's the mother of Mrs CONSTANT and that's the mother of the two
DAWSONS 1184__ What did you want to achieve by writing to them R_____The
same, get some dialogue going, getting somewhere but nothing came back, no
rejection letters, not a thing, not from any of them, amazing but 385___ Did
you think that Stella would find out about the letters R_____Well more than
likely 385___ It was quite obvious really wasn't it if it was a family of
hers they say that you've written R_____Assuming they're on speaking terms
with one another but if she-. I know one friend who was friends with this
Stella woman for twenty years but is totally non-friends now, they're totally
antagonistic over this, obviously, cos, well I assume, they believe me or she
believes me rather than believes Stella. 385___ And what about writing to
her boss R_____That was after the window was smashed yes, I mean. I happen
to know someone who works for the Samaritans and going around smashing windows
is not a rational way by any means and it's often a precursor to suicide and
there's other medical argy-bargy that's ... 385___ I disagree with that
R_____Well he's a doctor, he's a doctor who's a councelor with the
Samaratans 385___ We have a number of people in here for criminal damage and
... R_____ Oh yeah if you're talking about drunks leaving a pub and kicking
windows or smashing windows that's a different matter, this was
premeditated, targeted. 385___ That's what you'll say it's not what Stella
will say R_____Well I don't know I mean she came from here to * , contacted
her, well I wont say her name but her friend who lives in * and she, this
friend, brought her to my new pub which Stella wouldn't know anything about. Why
I don't know, this Stella woman started stalking me around the pub. I said quite
loudly to everyone who could hear but not shouting that if she had anything to
say then put it in writing, that's what I've been trying to get her to do for
years, and she, I upped and left and she came round, same business again so I went
right down to the other end of the pub, finished my pint and left and then an
hour later almighty great cracking and banging from the front door at
home, trying to break in including, cos there's a street light outside my glass
door, trying to slide a credit card down the slot and using her keys to try and
activate the lock with her own keys or something but then my neighbour said
perhaps he's round **, which is just around the corner, neighbouring road, and she
went round there and kicked this huge window in. 1184__ That's all been
investigated hasn't it. R_____ Yes it was processed by Hampshire Police as
far as I know. 1184__ So that's been investigated by Hampshire Police and
am I right in saying that she's agreed to pay for the damage R_____In
principle or some of the damage, it's ... 1184__ So that matter has been
resolved in that respect .. R_____ Well no it's in the process 1184__
Well it's in the process of being resolved, is that correct R_____It's being
processed, I don't know about resolved 1184__ You mentioned that you hadn't
written to her employer other than about this window. I understand from her
statement that she made back in April which is obviously prior to the window
that you'd contacted her boss at that time and you sent a letter with the
web-site details on. R_____ Not me. No I sent a letter when was it, I've got
a reply back from them somewhere, something about it being .. 1184__ So that
must have been sent prior to April of this year R_____As far as I know I
sent, I sent two letters to Mr STODDART I think it was, here we are. The
first one was 30th May and then one recently this notification that failed to
get through to her about taking her to civil proceedings in small claims court.
385___ You sent it prior to that window being damaged then
R_____Sorry, what prior to 385___ You sent him a letter prior
R_____No the window was smashed on 28th May 1184__ So if I speak to Mr
STODDART he will confirm that he's had no contact with you prior to that date
R_____Oh I contacted, what was her name MIDDLETON or something or other.
That's right I addressed the letter to Mrs MIDDLETON. I think it was the wrong
department and she sent the letter on to Mr STODDART 1184__ When was that
R_____A week or two before this ... 1184__ What I'm saying is had you
made contact with her employer before the window had been smashed
R_____No, cos, I mean I wrote it on the 30th May but not to Mr STODDART he ...
1184__ I'm not , I'm not talking specifically I mean anyone at her place of
employment, had you written to any person at her place of employment prior to the
window being smashed R____ No, but not before this one, it hasn't got a date
on there so, ah the 16th June, yeah, sorry 1184__ Cos, when Mrs CONSTANT made
her statement in April she sent, mentioned in her statement that you'd contacted
her employer and left a Web-site detail and implied that she wasn't a fit person
to be doing her job or words to that effect R_____No 1184__ So you're
disputing that that's taken place R_____Yeah I have written to her employer
but .. 1184__ You're saying it all took place after 30th May R_____Mm
1184__ You're adamant about that R_____Yeah 385___ And have you
written saying she's unfit R_____Well yes, I was referring to the suicide
thing 385___ But that's your opinion the suicide, it's not fact is it
R_____Yes but I mean she's dealing with children and other peoples
families, look at what she's done to her own family, I'd hate to think that ...
385___ But what sort of effect would that have had on her at work
R_____She should get herself sorted out 1184__ Going back to making
contact with her employer, did you make contact in any other way than writing.
Did you fax him R_____No 1184__ Or send a computer message R_____I
didn't even know what the name of the employer was cos the original letter I
sent to a different department, I mean Social Services but it wasn't actually
directed to him 1184__ What about Mrs CONSTANT's neighbours
R_____Yes, yes I sent them one letter each I think 1184__ One letter each
and what did you hope to achieve by that because surely they wouldn't have been
blood relations of .. R_____ I can't remember they were long term neighbours
1184__ Fian R_____Long term neighbours, I was just trying to find out
what's happened to my daughter and things. I mean the last contact I had with
her was in Leicester two years ago and I couldn't, I wouldn't get anything out of
her parents so I thought I might get some information out of the neighbours but
I was wrong on that count, they obviously sent the letters straight next door ,
both of them and that was the end of that 385___ You must have thought that
was going to happen though when you were writing about Stella in letters
R_____No, no there was nothing offensive in there but .. 385___ Well in
your opinion R_____ Well I mean it's not like what I think really of
harassing people, pushing dog shit through letterboxes and things like that, that
is 385___ But I think it's very harassing that you've written to her work
and claimed that she may be suicidal and that's purely conjecture on your part
you've got no evidence, no experience about that at all R_____ Yeah, I quite
agree so it's .. 385___ That's quite a cruel thing to say really ...
R_____ It's very justifiable, I think. I mean if she was a Traffic Warden ..
385___ Well she's not suicidal though R_____ If she was a Traffic Warden
or something like that it would be a different matter but ... 385___ She's
not suicidal, she's not been assessed, she's not needed any assessment and she's
not suicidal so it's a cruel lie. You've based it on damage to a window
R_____ And all that goes along with it but ... 385___ But what sort
of, you know, when the boss picks that up what is he supposed to think R_____
What he is supposed to think. That it needs a bit of investigating, check out
there isn't some foundation there ... 1184__ You must have known that when
you made that contact that that's going to cause her some sort of distress to
her R_____ Imagine the distress to me. I can't afford to replace this
window [10 ft x 6 ft , 8 mm thick plate glass] 1184__ You must have known that
when you sent that letter to her boss mustn't you R_____ To her boss
385___ What were you hoping for her to get the sack R_____ No I was
hoping for her to get treated 385___ Surely she's the one if she wants
treatment to seek it herself R_____ No it's up to her family and GPs and
things 385___ She hasn't seen you for twenty years or so. Why are you the
fount of all knowledge on whether she should have treatment R_____ I can't, I
can't get her committed I mean it's up to her husband and other people, I can't
do it. 385___ In those twenty years since this baby was conceived why have
you, cos you knew she was pregnant didn't you .. R_____ What with the
daughter 385___ Yeah R_____ Mm, oh yes 385___ Why did you leave it
twenty years without any contact for your own daughter ... R_____ What you
mean I should go out trying to contact my own daughter. Imagine the trouble
that would cause. It was my daughter that contacted me, not me ... 385___
But for those previous twenty years you didn't care a thing about your daughter
R_____ I've got no proof she was. She was going around with at least four
different people including the person who later was her husband. This is by her
own mouth I'm not talking about rumour. I've got no proof and she, I was, I was
told that my daughter was registered illegitimate. It 's only finding out
all this family history stuff, finding out and getting a copy of birth
registration details that I found, well perjury. It was conspiracy with Kelvin
1184__ What do you, what effect do you think this has had on her all of these
letters that you've been sending to her employer and friends R_____ Well my
argument is it could so easily have been resolved, all she had to do was divulge
a few blood groups and agree for GPs to swap details. 385___ What happens
if she doesn't want to do that R_____ But why doesn't she, she wants to get
rid of me surely, get rid of all this nonsense 1184__ That wasn't a question
I said, what effect do you think that's, this, all this had had on her R_____ I
really don't know so 385___ Do you care R_____ Care, I'm caring
indirectly cos I know the effect it's had on my daughter while I was still in
contact with her but, she just took her, took her mother's side and sent me a
letter saying I was deluded and lying to her and that's the last contact I've
had with her. I don't know where she's living. 1184__ Are you still in
contact with your daughter R_____ No, she just totally broke off contact
385___ But Fian has made it quite clear he will ... R_____ He hasn't
written to me, oh he ... 385___ He's made it quite clear that ... R_____
He phoned me up one time shouting and bawling down the phone 385___ He's
made it quite clear that at no point will he undertake any test R_____ Has
he, well he's not said that to me or anything 385___ So that really should be
the end of it R_____ Not as far as I'm concerned 385___ You can't force
him to take a test R_____ I can't force him no 1184__ He's an adult now
isn't he R_____ Mm mm 1184__ And it would be an assault for anybody to
force him to do, take a test and he's refusing to R_____ But I would have
thought everyone would want it cleared out of the air 385___ It's not
something , it's not something the family need clearing cos they're quite happy
that Kelvin is the father R_____ He can't be 385___ Well you've only
got, we've only got your word for that R_____ Indirect but genetic evidence
385___ When did she move out from you then, when did you last have sex with
her R_____ Oh, I vaguely remember it might have been a few occasions after
she was married but the odd occasions anyway in the late 70s I mean after both
were born. 385___ You say you've had sex with her after the birth of both
children [If this interview had been recorded on video tape you would be
able to see both bottom jaws drop in astonishment at this point] R_____
Yeah, yeah, not very often but a few occasions, the late 70s, you know, but there's
always other people that could have been the father as well, which I'm not going
to name but .. 1184__ When Fian spoke to you on the telephone did he make it
quite clear that he wasn't going to entertain the idea of having a blood test
R_____ He was, that was it as addled as his mother on these occasions at the
same time of night as well, trying to think, he was shouting and swearing
, couldn't really make, didn't really say anything, that's right, it was after I
sent the letters to the neighbours, that's right, so immediately or within a day
or two of that so that was, cos whenever I sent any letters it seemed to have
some sort of effect, got things going, might of gone in the wrong direction I mean
I've no way of predicting that but, but at least he, someone, that was the thing
that wound him up. Someone I've never spoken to before, wouldn't recognise the
voice at all, purporting to be Fian DAWSON. I've got no proof of that which is
what I said on the phone, especially at one o'clock in the morning. Get woken
up, that really wound him up, I assume it was him, it might have been a plant by
anyone, I just don't trust this Stella CONSTANT woman at all, it could have been
anyone 385___ What are you hoping to achieve by proving you're the
biological father cos you haven't been a father to them R_____ That I
haven't lied to my daughter basically. Just one thing I'd lied to my daughter
about and that was the, the night she was almost born. Stella came round, we'd
separated months beforehand, she came round and we were having sex and Stella
started haemorrhaging and we rushed up the hospital. Medically I don't know
if, if the doctors suppressed the birth. It would have otherwise been due then or
what anyway she, it was suppressed and patched up and she was, she was giving birth
two weeks later. But I had sent a diary of events or whatever you'd like to
call it, of our relationship , when we were living together, when we weren't living
together and I had quite deliberately disguised that we were having sex, although
on odd occassions, although we'd separated but I had mentioned this thing about
she, did her mother ever tell her that she was born almost two weeks earlier, or
ten days early or something like that. She was just pestering me and pestering
me to get an explanation of the otherwise strange event of being born too early
and eventually I had to explain that I'd misled her. I hadn't actually lied to
her, I had misdirected her, implied that we were living together and we separated
and there wasn't any ongoing odd occasions in between 385___ Was it
important to your daughter then to know that she might have been born two weeks
early R_____ No, no the point is that's the only time I've lied to my
daughter but what I've no idea what her mother's been telling her but she's
firmly of the opinion that I'm deluded or lying or both or a thoroughly nasty
person and ... 385___ Could you now leave them though just to be a family
unit and get on with their lives R_____ Get all this stuff out of the way.
I'd have done it three years ago. I mean we've got incompatible blood groups
385___ Yes but they've already told you that they're not prepared to undergo
tests so at some point you have to stop R_____ Well it will just niggle away
with them for the rest of their lives in that case but .. 1184__ What you'll
niggle away with them for the rest of their lives R_____ Not necessarily but
it will niggle at their own consciences 385___ That may be the case
but you, but you, have to stop harassing them when they've said they're not going
to entertain a test, which is why you haven't had a single reply to any letter
you ever sent R_____ I don't know she. I mean no one's contacted me at all
so I've no reason of knowing why they haven't got back to me .. 385___ Isn't
it all an indication though that if people don't reply that they're not
particularly interested R_____ I'd soon reply to a letter I found
offensive, anyway it had my name and address on the top, fully identified
385___ Why do you think they didn't reply R_____ Because it is very
informative information. They were probably getting a load of rubbish from
Stella as usual, and they're believing me. But on the other hand they couldn't
really get back to me cos it was implying that they're sister or whatever was
being a habitual liar 1184__ I expect they didn't get back to you because
the whole family knew .. R_____ I don't know, all I know is ... 1184__
Knew of these letters R_____ This was the first occasion [the round-robin in
front of me ] 1184__ And chose to ignore them because they didn't want to be
contacted ... R_____ This is the first occasion anyone has communicated
with me [round robin photocopy] 385___ But once you don't get a reply to a
letter surely that's some indication the people don't want to talk to you
R_____ Well I'd say the opposite 1184__ Especially as you don't know any
of these people R_____ Well all the more reason for them to write back
saying, a perfectly civil letter saying that, I received your letter of so and so
... 385___ Which after three years they have done R_____ After three
years exactly, three years, but not that many letters, I mean five or six letters
over three years 1184__ Each R_____ Well five on average I would
say, four to some six to others something like that 1184__ What abut
Kelvin, Fian and Leafe, how many letters have you sent to them R_____ Well
Leafe I mean we were communicating perfectly amicably until the mother threw a
spanner in the works that. Sorry what was the question. 1184__ How many
letters have you sent to others in the family, not Stella R_____ I mean well
to Leafe, thirty letters or something. We were just trying to make contact with
one another there's nothing threatening in there, well nothing threatening in any
of the letters 1184__ What about Fian R_____ The same sort of number of
letters as everyone else, five I suppose, something like that 1184__ And
Kelvin DAWSON, her husband R_____ Maybe three I should think, probably only
three 1184__ And what about Stella herself R_____ Two maybe, no more than
three anyway but the last one of those was in March 1999, I don't actually have a
copy here but there is a transcript here 1184__ Do you keep records of all
letters you've sent R_____ Oh yes, yeah 1184__ Do you have copies at home
of all the letters that you've sent R_____ Not all of them because they tend
to be much the same and I just sort of recorded I sent one to so and so and it's
just the same letter and I just sort of put in my records that I sent the same
copy to so and so 1184__ And what about the Web-site you set up R_____
That oh yeah, yes sorry what about it 1184__ What was the purpose of setting
up the web-site R_____ Put it in the public domain and get some feedback from
people, cos I couldn't find how to deal with this sort of thing. I mean
basically I can't afford to put this stuff in a civil action, prosecute them, god
knows what that would cost 385___ What are you hoping to prosecute
R_____ Oh this disputed paternity 385___ Without their consent they
won't give the blood so it can't go anywhere can it R_____ No it had to go
before a judge and he would have to decide the merits of the case as far as I
know 385___ But he could decide the merits but he can't force people to take
blood tests R_____ Can't he 385___ No cos that constitutes an assault
without people's consent R_____ Well I think, I'll take your word for that, I
mean I've not read up on it much, I, I assumed well what is the point of people
going to paternity issues in courts if that's not the case. Are you sure about
that? 385___ Well we certainly can't take blood from anybody here without
their consent R_____ No but I mean if you went to a judge and he saw the
merits of a case then maybe he would 385___ How are you going to force
someone do it though if they don't want to R_____ By the courts. I mean if
you cut some of their hair off that's technically assault but it's been deemed
allowable by whatever act of parliament it's not assault in those circumstances
1184__ We don't want to dwell on that too much
Buzzer sounding on
tape
1184__ What that sound there means is that R_____ The end of
the tape 1184__ The end of the tape. There's still other things we need to
discuss with you so what I intend to do is conclude this tape and put a fresh
set in. The time by the interview clock is 2051 hours and the interview is
concluded
Continuation tape Duration of interview 41 minutes Time
commenced 2055 Time concluded 2136
1084__ Okay the time by the interview
clock is now 2055 hours the date is still Saturday the 9th of September
2000, we've just concluded tape number one and we're going onto tape number two
an interview with Paul NUTTEING. Can you confirm Mr NUTTEING that the same
people are present R_____ That's correct 1084__ And that we've had a
couple of minutes break so that you could visit the toilet R_____ That's
correct 1084__ And you're happy to continue with the interview R_____
Yeah it's fine 1084__ And you understand that you're still under caution
R_____ Yes 1084__ And we will continue where we left off with the
interview okay. Before we go any further I've got a couple of letters here
which Stella CONSTANT has given me, this one in particular is to Mrs R , I don't
intend to go through the content of all these letters R_____ No, fair enough
1084__ In particular but I just want you to confirm with this letter is
written the 26th of May 99 to Mrs R, can you confirm that that's your handwriting
R_____ Yeah it would be my letter yes. I don't actually remember it but yes
I mean it's my letter 1084__ And that's your signature at the bottom of the
letter R_____ That's right, yes, yes 1084__ And I think that might be it's
in biro, its another letter dated the 29th of March 2000 to Mr DAWSON again ...
R_____ Sorry which Mr DAWSON 1084__ Umm just says Mr DAWSON R_____
Probably says on the envelope who it is to. Yeah that's him 1084__ Again
which this signature at the bottom can you confirm that ... R_____ Yes that
signature's mine, yes 1084__ That's your handwriting and that you'd written
that. I'm just flicking through that there's a number of letters R_____ I
like to see there's hundreds of them ... 1084__ So you're not disputing that
that's your handwriting R_____ Oh no, no 1084__ Okay I refer, I can, if I
refer to Stella's statement it refers to the amount of letters, which she is
referring to have sent ... R_____ This is over three years bear in mind
1084__ And what's happened to them R_____ Sorry what's happened to
1084__ The letters R_____ I've no idea no one has come back to me saying
so ... 1084__ No I'll explain that to you. She states that she was in, in a
relationship and, with yourself in 199-1976 when she fell pregnant, she goes on to
, go on to say that Naomi was born, however after she was, prior to her being born
that you had separated, that you had an on off relationship, however at the time
she was registered, registered the birth, she was living as a couple with her now
husband Kelvin R_____ I don't dispute that 1084__ Kelvin DAWSON and it
was him who registered as Leafe's father on the birth certificate. She said
that her and Kelvin went on to have their son Fian and ... R_____ SHE
HAD A SON 1084__ They have since had ... R_____ In between we
were living, when he was conceived, when he was conceived ME and Stella were
living together 1084__ Going from what she's saying on her statement ...
R_____ All right okay yeah but .. 1084__ Okay she then goes on to say
she's had two further children with her husband and you know they now live in
Salisbury. She says that sometime in 1996 she doesn't know the exact date, she
had a telephone call from Leafe to say that she was upset and she wanted her
help, because she had been in contact with yourself and that you started to
bombard Leafe with letters, obsessive letters and this had upset Leafe and that
you were implying to Leafe that you knew things about her and making general
hurtful ... R_____ They weren't implications they were highly precise
detailed information 1084__ Comments that were upsetting Leafe and that's
why she went to her mother with her concerns. Stella states that Leafe had
showed her a pile of letters that you had sent her and that the letters were
manipulative and insinuated there were dark secrets, possibly criminal secrets
which related to Stella and the rest of her family. She states that you'd sent
her approximately 100 letters most of which ... R_____ 100 letters to who
1084__ To Leafe R_____ Laugh 1084__ Most of which were destroyed
however Leafe has kept a shoebox full at home, the letters did not contain any
actual threats, however they were extremely distressing and that most of the
contents were fabricated and twisted versions of the truth R_____ No, I've
never lied to my daughter at any time apart from the one specific occasion I
said 1084__ She states that as a result of these letters Leafe had asked her
to intervene and asked her to speak with you and she says that at that time that
she came to * and she said she compassionately asked you to try and deal with
your relationship with Leafe on amore appropriate level, can you confirm that
meeting took place R_____ I can confirm she came round to see me, the
conversation half of it was about Social Services matters nothing to do with
this at all. In fact, in fact talking about an ongoing investigation that
was, she shouldn't have been talking about at all, she was totally off her trolley
that day. In fact when I pointedly asked her who Fian's father was, biological
father, she said it was someone completely different someone I don't know. News
to me but 1084__ She said that she left this meeting on good terms with you
R_____ Well I didn't throw her out if that's what you mean 1084__ You
were disputing it was on good terms then R_____ I'm disputing that it was a
conversation, she was -what's the psychology, the psychiatry, she was in an
alternative personality. It's out of things, just irrational, you just can't have
a conversation with her. She just comes back with a politician's answer [
anterotesis ] , if you ask her a very precise question she'll just come back
saying Oh what you're implying I'm lying or something. She won't keep to
the subject, you just can't get anything out of her 1084__ She goes on to say
that approximately 6 months after this visit that she and Leafe heard nothing
and then all of a sudden that you started to bombard her with letters, saying
that you sent letters to her husband Kelvin DAWSON, her son Fian DAWSON, her
daughter Leafe DAWSON, her daughter-her mother Honoria CONSTANT, her mother-in-law
Pauline DAWSON her sister and husband Mr and Mrs R, another sister and her
husband Mr and Mrs E, her brother-in-law Andrew David -Andrew DAWSON, her
neighbours Mr and Mrs C, other neighbours M. D. and her place of work Salisbury
Social Services. I'll go back saying this letter, this statement was made in
April of this year prior to the window ... R_____ Not one to Mr STODDART at
all 1084__ So you're saying you made no contact with Mr STODDART or her
place of ... R_____ Well no, this is my letter dated the 30th ...
1084__ Work whatsoever. I'm not disputing you wrote that one, what I'm
saying is back in April she's saying that you made contact with her, with
Salisbury Social Services. I'm not saying Mr STODDART I'm saying Social
Services R_____ No 1084__ You're saying that's a lie R_____ It's
nothing to do with me 1084__ She said the contents of the letters most of
which she's seen were generally hurtful comments, lies and distortions about her
and her family R_____ I'd like to see some of these lies proved, she's very
handy at using the term lying. For someone who is a pathological liar. I
mean what do you call perjury if it's not lying 1084__ Well she's written
here also that ... R_____ I'll tell you this one thing that got up my wick.
She phoned me up one time, probably in the middle of the night, I don't
know, saying things were getting, her daughter was getting upset about all
this, that she didn't want me contacting my daughter anymore. At that point I
sort of said yes to calm things down. That very same week my daughter wrote me
a letter containing with it her mobile phone number precisely to make it easier
to contact my daughter. Her mother's just desperate to, I mean all this
gagging order basically I mean, trying desperately to get rid of me, a thorn in
her backside or something and my daughter wanted to give me her phone number
precisely to make it easier to contact her, but her mother was trying to push me
out 1084__ Stella goes, she goes on to say that other letters you refer to
her suffering from MPD, Multiple Personality Disorder R_____ Hm mm 1084__
Well how do you know that R_____ Well I've spoken to a psychiatric nurse
1084__ Are you an expert in that field R_____ I'm not no 385___
That's only what you've said to the nurse not what the nurse has seen of Stella
R_____ Oh not no not Stella at all no 385___ So that's in fact a lie
R_____ It's consistent isn't it, it's consistent with 1084__ It's not a
fact is it, you're writing letters R_____ I can't, I'm not er, I'm not
medically qualified or anything 385___ But you said she's suffering from it
and you don't know that she is. You've got no idea R_____ I can only go by
this strange behaviour 1084__ Yeah but that's just made up then isn't
it R_____ Sorry what's made up 1084__ The fact that she's got Multiple
Personality Disorder R_____ Well I hope it's that rather than schizophrenia
385___ No but you made it up, because you've got no evidence other than
you've spoken to someone R_____ I've got nothing in writing no no 385___
So you've made it up and you've written that in letters which is quite hurtful
isn't it, if it's not true R_____ If it's not true 1084__ So that's one
thing that we've pointed out that's a lie isn't it that you've written
R_____ Sorry what's, what's a lie 385___ That she's suffering from it
because you don't that R_____ It's the only explanation I've come across in
all this that fits 1084__ It's still actually, it's not a fact though is it
R_____ Well I'm not a psychiatrist so I've not 385___ No so you're not
in a position to make that comment but you did R_____ On, on the basis of
evidence that I have ... 385___ Because a lot of people might find your
behaviour completely irrational R_____ I quite believe it. That woman
drives everyone round the bend, certainly did twenty years ago so hasn't changed
now. Give her the benefit of the doubt to start with but ... 385___ But
that's your opinion isn't it. Which again isn't fact R_____ But it's not
necessarily lies 1084__ She says that you've accused her of trying to get
someone to kill you R_____ Sorry. Oh to my daughter yeah that's right yes.
That's genuine 1084__ Can you tell me about that R_____ I mean this is
going back 20 years. I mean we're talking about, if you don't mind going back 20
years 1084__ No R_____ No its not recently. It was when she left, that
was her parting , parting threat that if I should consider trying to contact her
daughter or her son then she's got these fairground workers who would come round
and set on me apparently 1084__ Sit on you R_____ Set on me 1084__
Set on you. She says that you talk about her being evil, corrupt and having
illegal activities and being immoral R_____ Could be. I mean I haven't got
it in front of me but it's possible 1084__ It's possible that you could have
written these things in a letter R_____ Well I don't know about a letter but
. 385___ What are her illegal activities then R_____ I don't think I
would have written in a letter but might have been in this public domain thing
385___ So what are her illegal activities R_____ What then 385___
You, you've obviously at some point written R_____ I'm trying to think what
these illegal activities are 385___ Or you made that up as well R_____
I'm just trying to think, what's it in contact with, context with illegal
activities 1084__ She's saying that these are her, some of the hurtful, she's
pointing out some of the hurtful things that you've written in some of the
letters R_____ No, there's reference to that sort of thing in this public
domain document that's on the internet 385___ Okay so in that then, so what
are these illegal activities that you've put in the public domain R_____ I'm
not sure they're illegal as such 385___ So why did you put illegal
activities R_____ Have I actually written illegal activity 1084__ I
haven't got any letters(incoherent)I've just got her statement without reading
through them which would take the rest of the night R_____ I'd certainly say
immoral activities and activities that wouldn't be consistent with being a
social worker I would have thought 1084__ Can I just clarify with
you, because you're talking about the Web-site, basically that being in the public
domain as being separate to the letters R_____ Yes yes some 1084__ And I
understand that R_____ I mean there's ... 1084__ I understand that
you've sent little booklets with this information from the web site in paper
form R_____ Yeah 1084__ To a lot of the people from Stella's family
R_____ With all names disguised and all that sort of thing 1084__ Is
that correct R_____ With all the names disguised, yes 1084__ Did you send
that booklet to anybody else like to her boss R_____ Maybe I could have
done, yes. Yes it's quite possible 1084__ Okay and when did you send that
R_____ Er probably with this, I can't be sure on that but you've got it
definitely in writing somewhere have you 1084__ I haven't spoken to her boss
at the moment but I can confirm that when what R_____ Yeah it's quite
possible it's just, you know, there's so many odd people and bits of paper it gets
a bit confusing 1084__ So you may have sent that too R_____ Yeah may
well have done yeah 1084__ Mr STODDART, but you can't recall when it was
R_____ Oh it was probably with the letter as contents 1084__ Could you
have sent it before then R_____ I doubt it cos I didn't even know ...
385___ If you had a grievance with Stella why haven't you gone through the
proper channels to sort the grievance out R_____ As far as I know it costs
in excess of 10, 000 probably £20, 000 these days 385___ As far as I know
R_____ As far as I know 385___ Have you considered Citizens Advice where
you get a free letter R_____ Sorry free letter 385___ Solicitors letter
to send her R_____ She'd just tear it up in front of her. 385___ So you
instead you ... R_____ I didn't consider it no I can't 385___ You harass
all her friends to try and get some response R_____ No I inform people as
best as I could give, basically plead my case with anyone who will listen to it
that's why 385___ Most of it is your opinion isn't it R_____ No most of
it is very precise genetic information 385___ Things like she's suffering
from Multiple Personality Disorder is your opinion because she's not been
assessed R_____ Oh that was later on in the ... 385___ That is your
opinion 1084__ It's also your opinion that your Fian's father R_____
Until proven otherwise yes 1084__ So they're all opinions it's not a fact is
it R_____ All someone has to do is come back to me saying whether he's got
this wonkey wrist business or short arms or what my daughter's got which is
Cubitus Valgus which is a cocked-over arm at the elbow. It's all part of the
same thing called Dyschondrosteosis
Dyschondrosteosis
385___ You're not the only family in the
world suffering from that are you R_____ It's one in five hundred thousand
so it's the same level as DNA or that area of probability. 1084__ I don't
want to go down that route again because we've, I think we've exhausted that
route R_____ But there's plenty of forensically admissible stuff about
1084__ Stella goes on to say that you began to send letters in 98 this is
approximately maybe one or two years after the letters started only when they
started in 96 so some time R_____ I doubt it was 96, 97 might have been
1084__ Sometime into the letters you began sending letters which imply that
Fian was your biological child which she knows is not true and you started
bombarding her R_____ Sorry who knows this not to be true 1084__ Stella
knows this is not true R_____ She was living with me, we were having sex
every night for the three months that cover the time gap that Fian was conceived
. Now I know she was having sex with other people but apart from anything
else, balance of probability, it would be that I would be the father 1084__
She said that you bombarded her and her family of letters about this and sent
birth certificates, medical information of blood grouping etc R_____ That's
right yes 1084__ In relation to those claims R_____ They're very precise
stuff yes 1084__ And that you've also written directly to Fian making no
secret that you believe that you're his father R_____ That's right yes
1084__ She says that in total you sent her and her family, literally hundreds
of unwanted, unanswered, letters over a period of approximately four years
R_____ 50, 50 I wouldn't dispute over three years 1084__ Most of the
letters have been destroyed however I do have a number of letters which I
produce which are here and also with , some of them with the envelopes. It's
also saying you also set up the web site which we've just discussed with your
story R_____ Which also has got the dyschondrosteosis stuff which is very
very helpful to five people around the world [ about 30 now in June
2001] 1084__ Which refers to her and discusses immoral and evil R_____ It
doesn't, it refers to someone called Sheila or something or other 385___ Who
is Sheila R_____ Just a person in my write-up 385___ But your write-up
is about Stella isn't it R_____ Write-ups about all sorts of things
385___ But you said earlier that you changed the names to ... R_____
Changed locations, I changed a lot of details you know 385___ But it ...
R_____ Because it's in the public domain, I didn't want to have to read up
about libel rules and that sort of thing 1084__ In your story the person
that you're referring to as Sheila is Stella R_____ Just someone called
Sheila 1084__ Do you know someone called Sheila then R_____ No it's a
write-up 1084__ So you're saying what's on the web site is fictitious
R_____ Yeah a lot of it is 1084__ And it doesn't make it, it doesn't
refer to Stella at all R_____ No no where in it 385___ Do any of the
stories relate to Stella that involve Sheila R_____ Oh bits of them
385___ And earlier you said you changed the names because you didn't want to
be sued for libel. If you just made it up you wouldn't need to change a name
would you R_____ Well make, change the name, make up names anyway 385___
Cos doesn't Stella receive some correspondence to Sheila, have you sent
anything to her about Sheila R_____ Not as far as I know. Unless I have got
an alternative personality and started doing that 1084__ She goes on to say
that she'd now like the police to intervene and she feels harassed and
distressed as a recipient of the unwanted and the unanswered letters and she
fears by your comments that you made in a letter dated 29th of March of this
year. Where you say, "I'll move onto the next irrevocable stage after April
30th, 2000 unless anyone comes up with any forensically admissible proof that
Kelvin and Fian are related". What did you mean by that comment R_____ Well
I started to go in the public domain I was trying to keep all this within the
family sort of thing 1084__ So what did you mean by move onto the next
irrevocable stage R_____ Well I assumed, it's the first time that I've ever
put anything like this on the Internet. That it might create a life of its own
sort of thing and be unstoppable, but I don't think it's the case though. It's
just ignored. 1084__ She saw that as being a threat to her, is that what it
was intending to be R_____ No I mean I never made any threats at all to her
385___ It's a veiled threat there isn't it R_____ No it's not a threat I
don't make threats. Stella is the one that makes threats and violence as well
1084__ She goes on to say that the stress that you've caused not only
affects her but the whole family, in particular her daughter Leafe who's your
daughter too R_____ I'm afraid so, that's the way it's ended up 1084__
But if you're causing this R_____ I'M NOT causing it, it's that, THAT woman
just lying about everything to everyone, it's just disgusting ... 385___ You
could be termed as what's called a nuisance really though couldn't you R_____
Yes, that's why she wants this whole business of a gagging order, to get rid of me
385___ Because you're a nuisance R_____ A thorn in her leg, right
385___ You harass her R_____ No I've not, I've not, I've not harassed her
. I've informed a number of her family, relatives, very precise
information, that's not harassment in my terms 1084__ If someone took that
course of action towards myself or anybody I knew I would call it harassment
R_____ Have you read the relevant act 385___ Yes 1084__ Yes
R_____ Section 2 385___ Section 1, subsection 2 R_____ The Man on the
Clapham Omnibus Test, what constitutes harassment 1084__ It's not actually
specified in the act what is and what is not harassment R_____ It does say
what constitutes harassment if someone independent knows what's going on.
1084__ It's not specified R_____ The test, the test for harassment is
someone independent watching what's going on, is in receipt of exactly the same
information whether they would find the conduct, if they would personally feel
harassed. I put this to all sorts of people, there's no threats in my
information 385___ Doesn't have to be a threat to be harassment does it
R_____ No the section 2 is it , the test for 385___ The person whose
conduct is questionable ought to know that it amounts to harassment with
another, if a reasonable person possessing the same information would think the
course of conduct would amount to harassment of the other. Well I like as a
reasonable person that you've harassed Stella and her family R_____ I've
shown some people these letters and they've been enthralled about it not anyone
anyone if receiving these letters would be harassed. 1084__ Ultimately Mr
NUTTEING she's made a complaint of harassment against you, she feels harassed and
distressed by your course of conduct towards, otherwise she wouldn't of come ...
R_____ Her, her family's actions towards her not mine 1084__ By your
course of conduct the letters now been sent to her family but they've come back
to her, which ultimately causes her more distress by the nature of where you've
sent them to. She's saying that course of conduct has caused her distress, hence
she's come to us , if it hadn't caused her distress she wouldn't have come to the
police and asked for this to be made in complaint to you, because she hasn't done
so for several years of having receiving these letters has she R_____ That's
as far as I know yes 1084__ So she's feeling distressed then R_____ She
she wants a gagging order that's what it is 1084__ That's not what she's
asking at all 385___ What do you mean by gagging order R_____ Well she
wants me to be put in a position where I'm not allowed to inform anyone about
anything 385___ She wants to be left in peace R_____ Well that's
EASY, just, just divulge the blood groups openly, exchange letters between GPs, that
is all that's required 1084__ But that's not going to happen is it R_____
No it's a ridiculous stalemate thing 1084__ She's saying R_____ All this
business. Wasted money on window 1084__ That your course of conduct has
caused her distress and you're saying ... R_____ No one came back to me
saying anything, it's only the last, what is it ... 1084__ That's because they
have chosen to ignore your letters and filed them in the bin, because they don't
want to be hearing from you and they certainly don't want to be receiving
hurtful comments about somebody they care about R_____ I certainly never got
any comments of any shape or form back that they found them
intrusive, offensive, anything nothing at all 1084__ That's because most of
the letters were destroyed 385___ But you didn't get any positive feedback
either did you, you just buried your head in the sand R_____ I-I
haven't buried my head in the sand 385___ And continued to send them
. You didn't get feedback positive or negative R_____ I mean I've physically
received this round robin and I can reasonably infer from that that they didn't
want these letters but up to that point I've heard nothing at all 385___
Yeah but you've got nothing to say they didn't want them, but you've got nothing
to say they did want them. So you just buried your head in the sand and
continued to send them 1084__ It's not like you know these people is it
R_____ You're giving the impression that I was bombarding every post or
something like that, certainly was just over three years, I don't know why she
says four years, maybe 97, 98, 99 yeah I would have said three years rather than
four 1084__ Ultimately Mr NUTTEING it's going to be up to the court to
decide what is and what isn't harassment and if she feels that she's been
distressed and harassed by your actions then it's going to be up to the court
not one person you've spoken to or even our opinion that counts. It's going to
be up to the court to decide whether they deem your course of conduct towards
her and her family and friends and employer as harassment R_____ Well it
wasn't intended as harassment. It was putting my case to people who could have
a bearing 1084__ Well I put it to you that it wasn't reasonable for you to
be writing to her neighbours, her employer R_____ The neighbours were a bit
different. I was basically trying to get something about where my daughter had
gone or anything 1084__ You're saying that, that the parts of your neighbours
and employer was unreasonable R_____ Sorry the parts 1084__ The letters
that you sent to her neighbours were an unreasonable part of your trying to
spread your R_____ No a reasonable part 1084__ You're saying it's
reasonable R_____ Yes I mean no one there was going to tell me anything.
For all I knew my daughter had emigrated. I had had absolutely no contact
whatsoever, but someone I helped out well 800 quid, 500 quid one time and 300
quid another time for paying her rent on her house and that sort of thing in
Leicester and about two weeks after that I get this letter from her saying I'm
lying and deluded and doesn't want anything more to do with me 1084__ I'm
just amazed that you think your course of conduct was reasonable R_____ It
is in those circumstances. Would you write to a close relative of yours
informing that they were lying and deluded 1084__ That's R_____ I think
that's highly justified 385___ I think there's, I think there's things in
your letters that you can't prove are true R_____ Yeah but not lies
necessarily are they 385___ But they're not the truth, you're making a lot of
supposition about Stella without medical experts actually physically examining
her you don't know. Because I could say the same about you R_____ Those
comments are referring to someone in a write-up it's not directly referring to
her 385___ But it was because you sent those letters ... R_____
Where, where in all those letters does it say that I've implied that Stella
CONSTANT has got psychiatric problems. 385___ You my not have said Stella
CONSTANT but in your thing on the internet R_____ That, that's a different
matter altogether 385___ Well, you've actually said, that copy
those, (incoherent) to Stella and other people or to her family so you must have
meant it to mean Stella , or why send it to their families R_____ There's a
lot of it in there relevant, but a lot disguised and umm 385___ But you've
already said that you believe that's the case that she is suffering from that
disorder R_____ I wouldn't be at all surprised I tell you 385___ It's
not the truth is it, because she's not been examined for R_____ I, I don't
know 385___ Pure speculation on your behalf R_____ I should hope someone
has. No, just as an ordinary concerned member of the public I mean this-when she
came round to me-that unannounced visit. She spent well over half an hour going
into great detail about this case she was investigating in Winterslow, involving
sexual molestation and all sorts of nasty goings-on. This was, as far as I knew,
actually current investigation, and there was me nothing to do with social work.
Prattling on about this, I've forgot what I've said, so why did I bring that up
1084__ Can we go back to this web-site that you set up. You agreed that you
sent copies to some of Stella's family and friends, is that correct R_____ A
printed version 1084__ If that's nothing to do with Stella why would you
send that to them R_____ Because it's got information relevant about all
sorts of stuff, I don't put in letters. I mean there's precise details of blood
groupings, its very difficult to get hold of that complete listing of what's
allowable and what's not allowed .. 1084__ If you're saying it's nothing to
do with Stella why send it to these people that are relations to Stella
R_____ Because there is a lot of information that is relevant, but until I
have a dialogue with them I can't say what applies to her and what doesn't apply
to her. 1084__ You're not answering the question now, I'm saying why have
you sent it to Stella's relatives if you're saying it's nothing to do with
Stella 385___ And you're saying the story's not based around Stella
R_____ Oh there's links in there but not word for word 385___ The people
who are reading those things straight away that Sheila is Stella because why
send it to them otherwise R_____ Because it's a large printed tract and I
don't mind writing long letters but 60K of writing is ... 1084__ You're
trying to make us believe that you were writing to Kelvin's family to try and
ascertain blood test-blood groupings and things like that as a genuine reason to
find out what Fian's blood group is etc, which I can, I can understand why ...
There's a logic for that. R_____ I expected them to come back if I was
totally on the wrong track. If Kelvin's brother was blood group "A" then I
expected them to come directly back to me saying "You're talking a loud of
rubbish" ... 1084__ I don't disagree with that, I don't disagree that I
understand the logic for that one. What I'm saying is if you're saying that
this document has got nothing to do with Stella why are you sending it to these
people. That just doesn't make sense, that is just clear harassment by sending
this document ... R_____ No it's, it's not even set in Salisbury, all the
names are different everything ... 385___ If it's all different why send to
the people that you've been sending letters to R_____ Because I've got the
general information in there, the dyschondrosteosis and stuff. It's genuine
information 385___ And all you've done is change the name and in fact most
of it relates to Stella R_____ There's all sorts of differences in there, to
disguise who was writing it as well 385___ So you didn't get sued R_____
Er? 385___ So that you didn't get sued by Stella R_____ Possibly, I
haven't looked into that and can't comment anything about that 1084__ Why
else would you change the names R_____ Oh it's a ripping good yarn if you
like, ideal for the internet, it's full of conspiracy theory 385___ You've
based it on a true story in your opinion haven't you R_____ There's elements
of it in there that are true yes 1084__ What did you hope to achieve by
sending that document to her family and friends R_____ It's a summary of, all
sorts of stuff 1084__ What did you hope to achieve R_____ Well on the
internet ****. Nothings coming back, information of any sort, I could under-, I
could understand people complaining about information overload or something-just
too much 1084__ But you weren't sending people e-mails were you. You were
sending people, a, you were copying a document which you put on * and sending it
in the post to them. What were you intending to achieve if it wasn't intending
to cause harassment, what was the intention R_____ It's all about information
. It's putting my case, that is just part of it. It's not particularly useful
because it's all disguised. The far more useful bit is-I don't think I've got a
copy here-but my actual [paternity] treatise, the first letter I sent to
Fian, with all the genetic information. There was about 12 points, but 9 of them
probably would be forensically admissible probably 1084__ I mean now you've
heard it from us that Fian won't entertain the idea of consenting to a blood
test so ... R_____ WHY, WHY NOT 1084__ The matter of this
being resolved R_____ I mean the Family Law Reform Act where a mother's
refusal to ... 385___ He (incoherent) the parentage R_____ ... go over
blood groups can be deemed I don't know what the term is 385___ If he's
quite happy with accepting that Kelvin's his father. that doesn't necessarily
have to be biological does it because he's brought him up from birth R_____
Yeah I think, it's not like he's been officially adopted 385___ Why can't you
leave him to get on with his life R_____ Until I, I know definitely for sure
385___ Because once he knows even if you are his father, he's not gonna want
to speak to you anyway R_____ Not now, because the mother's mangled things up
so much. Even my daughter's not gonna have any contact with me now 1084__
The family are in no doubt that KELVIN is the biological father of Fian ...
R_____ Any ... 1084__ Which you're disputing. Now that's not gonna
change as a result of our conversation here today, we need to be sure that your
course of conduct is gonna end, because they, we're telling you that Stella is
feeling harassed and distressed by you're course ... R_____ I can say. I
won't be sending any letters to these four named individuals here. I've got no
animosity to them, it's just it's the first communication I've had. 385___
Because she doesn't want anymore sent to her work either R_____ Well I
can't, I've not had a letter from ... 385___ What we're saying to you though
is that she believes that, that course of conduct by sending it to her work is
harassment. You've been informed of it now and if there's another letter you
will be brought back in here R_____ I can understand that 385___ Now
we've got to make it clear to you now. Because you know that all the letters
that you sent out were unwarranted and people don't want them R_____ I
dispute whether it comes under the harassment act but I can see your point
385___ What I'm saying is you must not send anymore to work R_____ But
my point was I was warned in May or June whenever it was not to send any letters
to someone who transpires to be the complainant and victim Stella CONSTANT which
I haven't done 385___ No but you've tried to be clever and go around that
and sending to neighbours because you know damn well ... R_____ That, That
was a lot earlier, that was 385___ But you know damn well by sending it to
her family that they're gonna bring it up with Stella so other than delivering
directly you've sent them to Stella R_____ I can't predict things like that
385___ You know, you've done that so Stella can come round and talk to you
about the bloke and sort that out, so you know the family are gonna talk to
Stella about it R_____ This has to be in writing. I mean it's pointless
talking to her or conversation on the phone, is absolutely pointless. I still
haven't had anything in writing 1084__ I've made reference to Stella's
statement which has listed the people that you've sent letters to and she's
explained that all the recipients of those letters do not want those letters
from you R_____ I've now heard this. 1084__ And they certainly do not
want any of those letters in the future R_____ I've now heard it, and I've
heard precise names 1084__ And she's, she's listed not only her employer, the
people that you have letters from, she's also listed under that, LEAFE, FIAN, her
husband KELVIN and other people R_____ So my next move is Strasbourg then
1084__ That's you're choice if that's what you want to do R_____ That's
HER choice. I mean it could have been settled three years ago, but, so now I've
got to go to Strasbourg, because you're telling me I'm not allowed to communicate
with my children 1084__ We're saying that the letters R_____ That's what
you're saying 1084__ The letters that have been sent are unwanted and they
do not want to have this harassing communication from you 385___ I think the
best way for you do it, is to go through a solicitor if you want access.
R_____ I can't afford a solicitor at all 385___ You go through the
proper way but at the moment Stella's doing more ... R_____ If I could have
afforded it that's what I should have done 20 years ago 385___ Yeah
R_____ Couldn't afford it then, can't afford it now 385___ I think we've
resolved the interview today R_____ It's ridiculous 1084__ Okay is there
anything else you wish to add R_____ Yeah I did, I did write down a few
points, just in case they didn't turn up. Yeah, I said I was incorrectly warned
by WPC VIVIENE 385___ I don't think you were incorrectly warned R_____
Yeah, but I was warned not to send letters to Stella CONSTANT, I hadn't 385___
Yeah which can be directly or indirectly 1084__ They can't possibly
R_____ Letters, letters to Stella CONSTANT, not ... 1084__ (incoherent)
that what she said because you said you didn't know who it was R_____ I'll
go through precisely what it was. I happened to be going home * 385___ You
actually said that she didn't give you a name so you R_____ It wasn't just
that I went home , dropping off stuff at home because ****, at the same time
there's two uniformed policemen outside talking to a neighbour about a car that
had been dumped outside for weeks. So I assumed it was about that. WPC VIVIAN
came up to me and said "Hello Mr NUTTEING I want to talk to you, any idea why I
want to talk to you?". "oh, well if you know my name then it's probably
something to do with a woman in Salisbury". She said "yes" and said "We've had
a complaint about you sending letters to this woman" she didn't say a name "and
I'm here to warn you that under" well she didn't say the section "under the 1997
Protection from Harassment Act if you do it again you're likely to be arrested"
but she just made reference to this one unnamed person 385___ Okay what's
your next point R_____ Yes I mean if you brought up about that recorded
delivery letter. That comes under Section 1, subsection 3c as being reasonable
in the circumstances to get notice to her before the end of August after which
her costs in the civil action would go up all the time. [The letter I was
arrested for sending] PAUSE. And in a general sense a lot of my activities are
covered by section 1, subsection 3a as a means for detecting a crime that is
perjury and conspiracy to commit perjury. [and defamement by Stella Constant
of myself to my daughter] 385___ But that's you're opinion isn't it
R______Yeap
Form 365 served Interview concluded
------ The following is the first 5 minutes 40 seconds missing from
the first tape transcribed by myself.
1084__ Have you ever been
interviewed on tape before. R_____ No 1084__ What happens is I put 2
tapes in that run at the same time they're not recording one after the other.
They both record at the same time. One of those will be completely sealed up
and if the case goes to court that is called the master copy and that can be
unsealed for proof of the interview. The second tape is given, its one I can
make use of, it's called a working copy. R_____ I don't get a copy so can
I use my own recorder. 1084__ Hang on a sec. You can't use your own
recorder but you can apply for a copy. R_____ A transcribed copy or a copy
of the tape 1084__ A copy of the tape. I will give you a form at the end of
the interview. I've already written it here. This is the tape number. If you
take this along to a solicitor they can arrange for you to have a copy of the
interview. If it goes to any more tapes I'll record their numbers too.
Alternatively you don't have to go to a solicitor you can write yourself and ask
for a copy. R_____ Is there a case number I can refer to. I've had trouble
with this before. 385___ There is a unique number. R_____ ok, right, ok
1084__ With these details you can get a copy of the tape if you so wish, ok.
Initially I have to go through a number of instructions and explanations. I
have to go through with you. I'll go through that then I will go through the
body of what we need to talk to you about OK R_____ Yes 1084__ This
interview is being tape recorded. It may be used in evidence if your case is
brought to court. At the conclusion of the interview I will give you a note of
explanation of what will happen to the tapes and your entitlement to the tapes.
I am WPC 1084 Nicki GRIFFIN currently stationed at Salisbury. This interview is being
conducted in an interview room at Salisbury police station. The date is
Saturday 9th of September 2000 and the time by the interview clock is 20. 11
hours. What is your full name R_____ Paul NUTTEING 1084__ And your date
of birth R_____ ---- 1084__ Also present are 385___ DC Sean
MEMORY, Salisbury CID [Probably Sean James MEMORY, 10 Manor Farm
Rd, Salisbury, born March 1969, Bromley ] here to assist my colleague with the
interview 1084__ Can you confirm there is no one else present R_____ Oh
yes that's correct 1084__ I must remind you that you have the right to free
and independent legal advice. You can speak to a solicitor in private at
any time of the day or night and this legal advice is free. You can speak to a
solicitor personally. If you don't want to speak to him personally you can
speak to him by telephone. Do you want to speak to a solicitor before the
interview continues. R_____ No 1084__ Would you like to tell me why you
don't want free legal advice, you're not obliged to give any reply. R_____
Nothing major has turned up as yet that I can see warrants a solicitor, nothing
unforeseen that is. 1084__ I understand that previously you asked for legal
advice but changed your mind. You'vee spoken to Inspector DIBBLE and told
him you no longer want legal advice because you've spoken to him on the
telephone. R_____ At this moment 1084__ And you want to proceed with
the interview and Inspector DIBBLE has given authority for the interview to go
ahead. Can you confirm that is correct R_____ That is correct 1084__ Is
that still the case R That's still the case yes 1084__ I'm now going to
caution you again as I did after you were interviewed. You do not have to say
anything but it may harm your defence if you don't mention in questioning
something that you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in
evidence. Do you understand what that caution means. R_____ Yes 1084__
What's your understanding of what that means. R_____ I understand it but I
don't really understand why but I can understand remaining silent. 1084__
It's a bit more than that. I'll go through and explain it. It's very important
that you have a complete understanding of what that caution means. The first
part says you don't have to say anything which means you don't have to answer
any of the questions that I put to you. The middle section says that it may
harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something that you later
rely on in court. What that means is that if you say nothing now and the case
goes to court and you come up with some explanation as to why you've been
brought here then that can be used as evidence and the court can draw its own
conclusion as to why you failed to say anything here. Also if you say something
here this evening and if the case goes to court you then give a different answer
or a different reason then again that can be used in evidence and the court can
come to its own conclusion as to why you've changed your answer ok. And
anything you do say can be given in evidence. You have an understanding of what
the caution means now. R_____ Yes [ In all the 1 1/2 hours of this
interview , in my terms, I only made one mistake - one word I should not have
used. There were apparently 2 more occasions but these turned out to be
transcription errors discovered listening to the actual copy of the audio tape.
These errors have been corrected from the original transcript as supplied by the
CPS. It was probably more a case of the transcribing typist hearing what she
wanted to hear rather than deliberate falsification. Nevertheless all such
transcripts should not be taken on trust and should be compared with the
recording. Not something a solicitor is necessarily going to do so anyone else
in similar circumstances - make your own copy of these tapes. ]
